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Post by Pat Hoglund on Mar 5, 2018 4:32:25 GMT
I know this idea has been talked about for a little while now and I have a suggestion that you may or may not agree with but here goes..
Most people have balked at the idea because it will make offenses much more powerful than they already are. So with that in mind, if you are going with 2 HB's there should be some sort of disadvantages in it as well as the obvious advantages just as going 3 wide has the white die 1 rule.
If you think about it from a football stand point have 2 HB's on the field at the same time you blocking would be greatly diminished vs a FB or 2nd TE on the field. My proposal is as follows
Starting in the 2018-2019 season a team can place 2 HB's in the backfield at the same time. When using this formation the Offensive Line goes down 1 in both Pass blocking and Run blocking. 7 would be a 5 , 5 becomes a 4 and so on. Same with run blocking 6 becomes a 5. Also the defense can assign which LB they want covering which HB. The offense would have to announce this is my HB and this is the other Running back for play selection purposes.
When voting for this don't just vote no if you think it's too penal because if you believe that you'd want other teams to use this as it would be to your advantage being too penal and all.
I vote Yes
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Post by huntleybrian8 on Mar 5, 2018 14:27:50 GMT
I'm absolutely down with the idea of being able to use two HB's in the same backfiled. That being said, I'm not sure the 2nd HB should have any effect on the other blockers. To me, it doesn't seem to make sense that their blocking ratings create that big a domino effect. Why wouldn't the other back just be a poorer blocking version of what the FB/BB rating would normally be?
As far as offenses being too powerful, that shouldn't be an argument for the most part. We still allow defenses "power" advantages (FS Blitz rule).
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Post by Admin on Mar 5, 2018 14:54:51 GMT
I vote no.
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Post by Pat Hoglund on Mar 5, 2018 18:16:34 GMT
Mark, Would you be willing to give a reason/explanation on why you voted no?
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Post by Admin on Mar 5, 2018 21:15:36 GMT
Sure. It is not an SOM rule. I don't feel we should implement a 2 HB rule unless SOM sanctions it. I believe our league follows all the offensive formations that SOM allows. This would be too significant a change from the game platform.
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Post by Jets and Chargers on Mar 5, 2018 22:12:24 GMT
Reasons why I do not like 2 HBs in the backfield.
1. Rarely do we see 2 "workhorse" type HBs in the same backfield in the NFL. Heck, the running full back is gone. In our league, we will have backfields with LeVeon Bell and Theo Riddick; or Lamar Miller and Mark Ingram. This is unrealistic. Theo is not blocking for LeVeon and LeVeon is not blocking for Theo. These guys have specific roles and packages. In the past, Strat has carded Deuce McAllister as a HB/FB and Reggie Bush as a HB so that they can both be in the same backfield. Permitting 2 HBs in the same backfield will drastically reduce the "keying" of a HB. It decreases the defense's ability to play defense.
2. When we do see 2 backs in the same personnel grouping -- they are not in the backfield together in a Pro Set. 1 of them is usually split out like a WR and if the split back gets a handoff/toss it is usually a Jet Sweep. I could envision a rule where we treat the second running back as "3rd wide" and he can only run an "End Run" to 1 side of the formation. Although, this seems like a lot of work for not a lot of benefit. Tavon Austin, Tyreek Hill, Ty Montgomery are carded appropriately as HB/WR.
3. Strat has carded HBs as A/B for YAC purposes. Teams would deploy 2 running backs solely to gain a good YAC player on the field.
4. I don't like changing a rule because Strat may not card Alvin Kamara and Mark Ingram in the backfield together.
5. Keying (and the threat of the key) will likely disappear with two good runners and a QB in the backfield.
I will likely have other reasons I don't like. I just wanted to get a few out into the discussion early.
Thanks for the proposal!
Cheers!
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Post by huntleybrian8 on Mar 5, 2018 22:13:10 GMT
FYI-We tend to bastardize SOM rules on both sides of the ball as we see fit. Not sure why, but we do. Things like "These are my dudes", How we handle the FS blitz, various charts etc.
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Post by Jets and Chargers on Mar 5, 2018 22:22:38 GMT
"These are my dudes" --
1. I voted against it. 2. The majority of the league determined that the offense announces its 11 players; the defense announces its 11 players; the offense selects its formation; the defense selects its formation. Not a huge change from the SOM Rule. That is the beauty of Cards and Dice. We can make house rules. 3. The FS blitz is pretty close to the way Strat did it before Strat changed it in the computer game. To be in line with the computer game we would need to change our dice. 4. Charts? What charts are "bastardized?"
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Post by Jets and Chargers on Mar 5, 2018 22:38:59 GMT
I suggest we have a "Rules Summit" again. A night to have a beverage and discuss the rules and possible changes thereto. I believe it is easier to discuss many of our "issues" face to face.
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Post by Ryan D (Ravens & Redskins) on Mar 6, 2018 3:05:40 GMT
I really like the idea of a rules summit. A lot of ideas and proposals never get seen through. I'm all aboard with that.
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Post by huntleybrian8 on Mar 6, 2018 3:20:24 GMT
Scramble chart-Doesn't exist in SOM. Let it bounce, we adjusted the fumble roll to a split muff roll. We have also adjusted the punt out of bounds rule. Injury charts Interception Return Chart (Added 10 as a long gain instead of 13 yards and adjusted the 11 fumble roll yardage) Defensive 4-2-5 Nickel formation (Should be no ILB only OLB's)
I'll stop there for now.
I'm down for a rules summit.
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Post by Jets and Chargers on Mar 7, 2018 6:12:46 GMT
Brian -- I think you forget that the league made a lot of these rules before the game company made any changes. We have lots of great rules that the game has/should implement:
QB kneel downs. Squib kicks. Cutting fumbles on PR/KR in half. Cutting blocked punts in half. Punting out of bounds. Changing the INT return chart well before the game company added individual team returns. Low carry HB rule. Short pass defender X = short gain Short pass interference = short gain chart Long pass interference = short gain chart times 2 Wind Variable clock length decided by offense. :15/:30/:45 Spike the ball rule Throw to end zone at any time Allow any LBs to be removed in a Nickel or Dime If a TE only is designated a BB, the defense elects to choose whether the SS covers the TE or the BB preventing the offense from "rigging" the game Best rule of all -- DICE ARE ROLLED IN A GLASS! -- it still marvels me that it never occurred to me do this for the 25 years I played strat baseball and football before I joined the league.
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Post by Jets and Chargers on Mar 7, 2018 6:17:32 GMT
In short, I think our league has done a great job of keeping competitive balance while trying to replicate a version of pro football. I do not think the game company's rules have been "bastardized." I think we have done a great job of improving on a fun game. We are not that far away from the computer rules, although cards and dice do have limitations. I am all for discussions on potential changes. The changes that have been made over the last 16 years have been fantastic.
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Post by Pat Hoglund on Mar 7, 2018 13:42:26 GMT
QB kneel downs. SOM Rule Since 2001 at least
Squib kicks. Our Rule first
Cutting fumbles on PR/KR in half. SOM Rule since 2001 at least
Cutting blocked punts in half. Our Rule
Punting out of bounds. Our rule=ridiculous punter with radar decides exactly where ball goes out of bounds
Changing the INT return chart well before the game company added individual team returns. Our Rule but our roll on 11 is not realistic (Fumbling the return as soon as he intercepts it) SOM roll on 11 (Fumble +22) is more likely
Low carry HB rule. Strat Rule running back fatigue rule around since 2001.Took us years of saying this is crap before we finally got something done. Our Rule=STILL NOT GOOD.
Short pass defender X = short gain Our Rule
Short pass interference = short gain chart Our Rule (Idea stemming from SOM Variable pass interference rule)
Long pass interference = short gain chart times 2 A variation of the SOM rule we implemented after SOM did
Wind Another ridiculous one: Wind doesn't blow until the 23 yd line on FG's I guess all their stadiums ends are enclosed for FG's
Variable clock length decided by offense. :15/:30/:45 Our Rule which should be changed to SOM clock. Having a chance to run a maximum of only 8 plays in 2:00 mins of game clock is not close to reality. With the SOM clock up to 16 plays run in same time frame
Spike the ball rule SOM Rule since beginning of PC game at least
Throw to end zone at any time SOM Rule since 2001 PC game
Allow any LBs to be removed in a Nickel or Dime Our Rule
If a TE only is designated a BB, the defense elects to choose whether the SS covers the TE or the BB preventing the offense from "rigging" the game Our rule because we have to try and stop people from 'gamming the game' in our league. Maybe we should have a rule if the players position reads 'TE' that's all he can play. We don't allow HB's to play FB. I'm not even sure why the game allows it other then the fact FB's don't exist for the most part. Case in point, there are only 21 players carded as 'FB' in the entire set.
Best rule of all -- DICE ARE ROLLED IN A GLASS! -- it still marvels me that it never occurred to me do this for the 25 years I played strat baseball and football before I joined the league. Needs to read "ROLLED AND KEPT IN A GLASS"
So while we do have a couple of good 'house rules' that SOM doesn't, some of ours are worse then the SOM rule.
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Post by allday28 on Mar 7, 2018 15:06:21 GMT
I am absolutely in favor of a rules summit. I think it is something that should happen once a year in the off-season.
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